[Buckeye]

http://hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=1113

Top benchers make a statement in ES discussion
It has been going on for quite some time now, but still no one really knows how to solve the big issue regarding the super samples of Core i7 and Phenom-II technology seeded by Intel and AMD. In the Hwbot forums, different point of views have already been posted, more than a few opinions have been shared and a large set of arguments have been used to explain why results obtained with the so-called cherry samples should be allowed or not on Hwbot, or in any overclocking competition for that matter.

In any case, two nordic overclockers have made a strong statement by removing their results obtained with super Phenom II samples, given to them by AMD. Sampsa and Elmor are the two top overclockers who have explicitly asked users not to use their super samples to be used in Hwbot by removing multiple scores which cost them respectively 34 and 13 places in the overclockers league.

As the discussion is still going on about how the Hwbot team should be dealing with these results, I would like to call out again to the Intel and AMD representatives who are seeding these samples to step up and work together with Hwbot to resolve this problem. In any case, for those who want to ventilate their opinion or help to figure out a working solution for this problem, post here: http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3074.



......

Personally I am not using HWBOT any longer.

Tho I am very happy to see that these guys have done what they have and it’s a step in the right direction imo.

I do believe that HWBOT is at a turning point and hopefully they will decided what the final vision of what HWBOT should be after all this settles down. My hopes are that there will be a separate section that these chips can be uploaded to so as not to spoil the regular sections.

I believe this... ES chips have been around for a long time and have been considered fair game. ES chips have also been known for a long time they are property of Intel and cannot be sold. A black market developed as was over looked for a very long time. Large amounts of money were being transferred to people who received these chips free in many cases with these illegal sales. All the people who received ES chips from Intel knew that selling these chips were illegal and many forums like XS would not allow them to be sold there.

The Super Chips from AMD and Intel were chips that no one could get, besides the people who received them. They would simply own HWBOT with those chips that no one could compete against.

LHe and LN2 and other cooling methods are fair game imo, just like top notch rigs that cost a lot. If you have the money then go for it, but not with something that no one could get or get illegally.

A separate section for these should be used tho as I do believe that it is good to see what they can do with these chips that are only sponsored by Intel or AMD. These become a Pro user area or some other special name like that.

I would also like to see scoring sections broken down by cooling so that people who WC, Phase etc can compete against each other and not WC vs Cascade. I don’t think that this will be possible in the end tho.

We shall see how things shake out tho.

I know that none of my special chips will ever make it into HWBOT, only screens posted.

[RomDominance]

Good post Buck, agreed alot with what your saying here.
It seems there are a great many discrepencies in the bot,....some which nothing really can be done (like cooling), but a great many, which have been overlooked or ignored. The two I can't get past are the ES or unique components and the guys using servers at work...bs.

NBOC has decided that we will concentrate our efforts for the good of the team as opposed to the good of the individual,....it definately makes the bot an easier pill to swallow.

[Buckeye]

Good to hear Rom

[Neuromancer]

I would like to see HWBot implement a means of searching by cooling as well.

Rather than top 100 E8600 overclocks, what if I am limited to air, and just want to compare to Air coolers. Of course still having global top dog is important, no reason that extreme OCers should not get more boints for the time and money they spend to knock it out of the park. Would be nice to see a little love for us "standard" OC'ers is all.


Thanks for the post Bill. Hopefully HWBot does do something about htis. It is in their rules that you must own the hardware. If Intel/AMD retain "ownership" Of Es/Golden Samples, than by all means they should be prohibited from bionts, or at least given their own section.

[DrNip]

They say they can't due to there is no way of proving what type of cooling they are using. But I think engineering samples shouldn't be allowed to be used. Only hardware made public should. If they should they should be in their own class.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by DrNip

They say they can't due to there is no way of proving what type of cooling they are using.

Yeah I understand that, just a wish of mine

[Chuchnit]

Meh all this is bullshit. You really think it'll stop anything? Nothing more than a bunch of crying in my opinion. The ONLY ES cpu's out right now that do what retail can't is PHII. RETAIL i7's are owning the benches.

Here's the deal. People should focus more on separating cooling methods than banning results. You think that intel or AMD can change the cpuid string to NOT say ES? Still a cherry, right? Then how can you tell if they bought it or not? Same thing with video cards. How many of the top ten spots for 3d benches have bought their own cards? What about their ram? I mean this shit cracks me up. People think just because they can see the ES in cpuz, thats the only hardware people are benching that hey don't own or has been hand selected.

Sorry guys, but even though I hate competing agaisnt sponsered overclockers, you can't stop this. There is too much money at stake for hte manufacturer

[RomDominance]

I disagree Chuch. Its really quite simple to fix. If a component is not available on the retail market, it has no place scoring boints. In regards to multi cpu platforms, simply divide them into a seperate class, end of arguement. I don't see an answer for the cooling debate though.

[Chuchnit]

Originally Posted by RomDominance

I disagree Chuch. Its really quite simple to fix. If a component is not available on the retail market, it has no place scoring boints. In regards to multi cpu platforms, simply divide them into a seperate class, end of arguement. I don't see an answer for the cooling debate though.

Rom, my point is this. So lets say that hwbot bans the use of ES cpu's. Now everybody says oooh....aaahhh the playing field is level now. No it isn't. Intel, AMD/ATI, and Nvidia rely on the results of their hardware to make money. They WILL still sponser people and WILL give them top notch gear. Did you not see the cpuz screenies from when K|ngp|n benched at AMD headquarters? None of those chips said ES. Luckily AMD, Vince, gomeler, and chew* were honest enough to admit these were handpicked retails. You won't always be so lucky.

Why would AMD or Intel not secretly hand out cpu's that are so leaky they can't make it to retail to someone. If they break a record, it boost their sales. I got alot to say about this and not enough time to type it. Will devulge laterz....

[3oh6]

Originally Posted by Chuchnit

Meh all this is bullshit. You really think it'll stop anything? Nothing more than a bunch of crying in my opinion. The ONLY ES cpu's out right now that do what retail can't is PHII. RETAIL i7's are owning the benches.

bingo, and well said. i have an i7 975 ES i have posted results with, it is a real....errr....gem, yeah, that's it . it must be, it's an ES. if anyone wants it i will trade you for a sealed inbox W3540, hell, i would take my chances of getting a better chip from a 920

Originally Posted by Chuchnit

Here's the deal. People should focus more on separating cooling methods than banning results.

this is next to impossible. take the guys benching on "air" in -40C ambients. i can use water cooling but run that water at -30C. as for actually determining what cooling guys are running, impossible. you want to open the door to further rule breaking, introduce cooling categories. there just isn't a feasible method for policing, implementing, or determining cooling categories.

as for the last part of your statement, one word...BrianY. top 10, not a single piece of sponsored hardware. nothing handed to him, nothing binned except by him personally...and he isn't a millionaire. works every day of his life just to get by and feed his family. complaining that you can't compete is bullshyt, it is an excuse, plain and simple.

i am not sponsored in any way either, i do reviews in order to facilitate my benching. and if you think by doing a review for a piece of hardware is having it handed to me, think again. 80 hours of work for a proper review is hardly free. having the thousands of dollars of equipment to facilitate a proper review is not free. the knowledge to write a proper review is not free. the knowledge needed to understand all aspects of a piece of hardware for a proper review is not handed to you.

instead of whining, i compete by using what i have at my disposal. my skill set, my other hobbies, my knowledge to write reviews, to obtain hardware, and to bench that hardware. it is much easier to whine than it is to do something about it. you don't have to do it my way, everyone has their own methods, but just do it...don't complain.