Where do i find ln2 [Archive] - Overclockaholics Forums

MaadDaawg

07-12-2009, 05:58 AM

I am seriously thinking of getting an LN2 pot so I can go extreme on multiple boards. Problem is, I have no clue where to buy it from?? I know several of you run LN2 so am curious if you buy it from a gas company or ???? I've found AirGas that sells it but haven't yet been able to get a quote (they're closed today :( ) Roughly what does it cost and how do you buy it??

Would really appreciate your knowledgeable insight :)

Thanks and Mahalo
Jim

Deux

07-12-2009, 06:32 AM

I've used both Airgas and Praxair locally. They were within 2% of each other price wise.
So far I've been paying $120-$130 for 30L. Friend pointed me to a place where I should be able to get it for about $2L, name escapes me at the moment, will update later. You can also check local welding supply shops, sometimes they have excellent prices

Hope that helps, prices should be pretty close seeing as you are nearby :)

Kal-EL

07-12-2009, 07:43 AM

Gaspro/Airgas would be the locations to pick up LN2 from. Some locations don't carry it so call ahead. They also carry DICE. Prices vary.

If you need an LN2 pot, you can either go to kingpincooling.com and get one of Vince's F1EE cpu pots or troll the various forums for someone making a decent custom pot.

2chesapeakes

07-12-2009, 08:09 AM

I get mine from air gas roughly $80.00 for 60l

karmakazi

07-12-2009, 11:23 AM

I fill my 50 liter from airgas for $25

bluto

07-12-2009, 02:54 PM

Here in Southern California I go to Cameron Welding . I get mine for $2.22/liter + $6.00 haz mat handling fee so $61.00 for a 25LD. What's cool about the place is they let me haul it in my Toyota Camry so no need to bug my friends to borrow a pickup. I've called Praxair and Airgas here and quotes are high cause I don't think they wanna be bothered with small volume clients unlike the mom and pop suppliers.

MaadDaawg

07-12-2009, 04:29 PM

Great info all.. thanks :)

Another question - do you have to own your own container or do they rent/lease those with the ln2? I've read that dewers can be pretty expensive ?? Approx how many hours oc'ing on 30 liters?

To be honest ohcrap I was thinking of getting a Koolance pot cause they're much cheaper:eek: Worth the money to get a kingpin Dragon ?

3oh6

07-12-2009, 04:43 PM

word on the street is the Koolance pot is fine for dry ice but not good at all for LN2. Chris tested one at Legit Reviews and he knows what he is doing, he said the Koolance pot was garbage for LN2.

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/987/1/

another good alternative is a k|ngp|n bullet pot - the name is escaping me right now - but he doesn't have them listed on his site. not sure if Vince is going to make them anymore, but you should be able to find one used for a good price. it is a great little price/performance pot for LN2 and dry ice.

as for LN2, my only advice is to shop around...a lot. as an example, at Air Liquide in my town, they charge almost $6/L for LN2, but at Praxair i get LN2 for $1/L. the variances of price can be pretty drastic, so it is worth the leg work finding a cheap source.

Deux

07-12-2009, 05:09 PM

On 30L I can get 2-3 short CPU only sessions or one really long one. Never have benched I7 or GPUs on LN2 though so not really sure how long it would last for that.

As far as a pot goes, the KP bullet shaped pot is the Dragon (Evo?) which had multiple revs up to 2.4 IIRC. It is indeed an excellent value as they can usually be found for only a few dollars more than the Koolance tube is new and completely destroys is in LN2 performance. The only challenge for the Dragon may be finding a 1366 mount for it.

Personally though, I'd probably drop the extra cash for the F1EE if you can swing it. THe way I look at it is the difference in price between a good tube and the best is fairly insignificant relative to the amount of hardware it will cool during its lifetime.

For dewars, Ebay can be an excellent source. I found my 30L in almost perfect condition for under $300 including shipping. If you are patient you can almost always find a deal .

MaadDaawg

07-12-2009, 05:39 PM

Thanx Duex :)

There's an AirGas less than a mile from the house.. will have to check it out

Duex ... Dude... you get one long cpu only session off 30 liters? at $1 to $6 a liter I'm hoping it's one long session lol as in, ohh I don't know.. a day and half or so ??? lol Might have to settle for phase for now and save up for a cascade... :P

MaadDaawg

07-13-2009, 10:34 AM

What I learned from AirGas today :)

IF you bring in your own dewer, the charge works out to 5/6 USD per liter because they first have to chill down the unit and that wastes product ... umm sure..

HOWEVER... you can RENT a 180 LITER DEWER for about $2 per day (60/mo) and then the LN2 only costs you $1 buck a liter. Since they weigh 5 or 600 pounds, they need to be delivered ($27 approx in my case) but they won't go up or down stairs. This would work for me since I have a gated back yard with a sidewalk that runs just next to my current office, and, my fuure basement laboratory..:morpheus: All I'd need to do is drill a hole into the house and run an insulated tube down (the wife already has rejected any thoughts of LN2 in the office) to the basement and I'm set :)

Seems like the best solution :) If 180 liters lasted me two months the cost would be about $240, or, $4 per day :) :)

Ohhh, can't wait for my daughter to move out lol

NoL

07-13-2009, 10:59 AM

So the 180L dewar comes with a withdrawl device?
"Running an insulated" tube might become alot harder then you think.

IF you bring in your own dewer, the charge works out to 5/6 USD per liter because they first have to chill down the unit and that wastes product ... umm sure..
And this is 100% the case, you bring in a room temp dewar it can take more then a few liters to chill it down.
Normally it's about 15% of carrying capacity (A 100L dewar might take 15L to chill)
And they charge you by the size of your dewar, so they're loosing quite a bit of money there.

MaadDaawg

07-13-2009, 01:32 PM

Actaully, they didn't mention a tapping device, and I already suspected running an insulated pipe may be more difficult than one might first imagine... but I've attempted far more ludicrous endeavors in my time, and somehow have always pulled them off.

Just a matter of boring through the concrete wall of the raised basement.. should be no big deal lol

They're delivered already full and they'll wheel them into place ready to go. Sounds like a hell of a deal to me bro :)

NoL

07-13-2009, 01:35 PM

It is a good idea. But moving a cryogenic liquid that evaporates and builds pressures isn't so easy. Withdrawl devices can cost MORE then the dewar.

2chesapeakes

07-13-2009, 01:41 PM

If you are going to run a hose from the dewar into the house make sure you put a pressure releif device between the dewar and the valve inside.

What I learned from AirGas today :)

IF you bring in your own dewer, the charge works out to 5/6 USD per liter because they first have to chill down the unit and that wastes product ... umm sure..

HOWEVER... you can RENT a 180 LITER DEWER for about $2 per day (60/mo) and then the LN2 only costs you $1 buck a liter. Since they weigh 5 or 600 pounds, they need to be delivered ($27 approx in my case) but they won't go up or down stairs. This would work for me since I have a gated back yard with a sidewalk that runs just next to my current office, and, my fuure basement laboratory..:morpheus: All I'd need to do is drill a hole into the house and run an insulated tube down (the wife already has rejected any thoughts of LN2 in the office) to the basement and I'm set :)

Seems like the best solution :) If 180 liters lasted me two months the cost would be about $240, or, $4 per day :) :)

Ohhh, can't wait for my daughter to move out lol

NoL

07-13-2009, 01:46 PM

Dewar has one already, wouldn't worry that one too much. More the better though?

2chesapeakes

07-13-2009, 03:02 PM

As long as he is not trapping any LN2 between the valve on the dewar and the valve inside he should fine.

MaadDaawg

07-13-2009, 04:39 PM

Couldn't I just leave the valve outside on all the time and turn it off with the vavle inside?? Would be a royal PITA if I had to walk outside and around to the side of the house to turn it on and off each time I wanted to use it. Or would that cause it to dissipate too quickly?

So how much colder can LN2 bring the CPU as compared to a good Cascade unit ? Sounding more and more that the cascade might be the way to go if -110C is low enough.

Also.. is an LN2 run a one person or multi person effort? What if you want to do both cpu and gpu pots ??

Really like the idea of LN2 but the wife gave me anouther reminder today I can't do it unitl I get my basement back. In this economy, who knows when that will be :(

Kal-EL

07-13-2009, 05:05 PM

If you're running a cpu and a couple of gpu pots, you'll want some help doing it. But if its just you, its doable but a major multi-task if you're really riding the edge of tuning temps/clocks. For bone crushing pump up the voltage overclocking, you can pretty much run LN2 on the 1's and 2's like a mad man and see major overclocking gains.

Chuchnit

07-13-2009, 05:31 PM

Well you can go as low as -196c max on ln2, but most chips except PHII can't take it. The few i7 that can are reported to get funny with the IMC. Honestly a cascade is cold enough for i7, but you don't get the temp control like with ln2. That is what makes it king. Got a CPU that cold bugs at -40? No problem, use ln2. Cold bug at -62c? Use ln2 cause dice don't give temp control. Get it?

karmakazi

07-14-2009, 04:32 AM

Well just a thought... my bench party I had a 180L from airgas (pressurized at 22psi - to dispense liquid) and from static loss I lost about 30L over the weekend. So there's really no way it could last you more than a week, even if you didnt use it. I asked airgas about it and they said pressurized dewars arent insulated as well. Not to mention many an airgas dewar is somewhat abused, and may not have full vaccum.

Also remember that they do not include a transfer hose as part of the rental. I had to buy one (got a nice 4 footer) or else the dewar was useless to us. I got mine form the guy at airgas ($250 list he gave it to me for $120).

Remember, you can haggle with them over liter costs and such also. Or you can do what I did and say that if they "sponsor" your LN2 for low cost you will give them publicity.

Well you can go as low as -196c max on ln2, but most chips except PHII can't take it. The few i7 that can are reported to get funny with the IMC. Honestly a cascade is cold enough for i7, but you don't get the temp control like with ln2. That is what makes it king. Got a CPU that cold bugs at -40? No problem, use ln2. Cold bug at -62c? Use ln2 cause dice don't give temp control. Get it?

i7 has a 3rd coldbug we have to contend with and its the IMC coldbug. But many of the very best i7's need to run -120° and some much lower than even that.

Buckeye

07-14-2009, 04:52 AM

What I learned from AirGas today :)

IF you bring in your own dewer, the charge works out to 5/6 USD per liter because they first have to chill down the unit and that wastes product ... umm sure..

hmm that one is news to me, they charge me by weight.

For my 50L it costs me $125 and that includes Hazmat charge, tax etc.

I have asked them many times about having a 160L delivered but they keep blowing me off or give a very high price. All these places seem to charge a different price.

Praxair over here seems to be ok, I have yet to work out any deal with thim. They do not have LN2 here in my town that I can just go fill up my Dewar, there main supply is in the next town over.

I have to find somebody else around my town for supplies :(

HITandRUN

07-14-2009, 06:15 AM

Yeah all these places seem to have different prices so its good to go and look around for a deal. I pay $30 for a 20L dewar at Airgas right down the road and I never even asked anywhere else sine this seemed to be a pretty low price. The cheapest he ever charge me was $16 to fill up and this was a killer deal but mostly he stays around the $30 mark. I really hate the different prices and will look around a little in the future (once I get of my lazy ass). :rofl I'll be staging a OC party early next year so we'll see how the big LN2 tank delivery will go over with Airgas. :blink:

karmakazi

07-14-2009, 06:29 AM

MaadDaawg

07-14-2009, 09:07 AM

bummer news Supes on the longevity of the usefull life of a 180l tank :( Don't think I'm gonna be spending 200 bucks a week to feed my habit... especially while my dog's sick and eating 200 bucks a month worth of pills ... would rather keep the dog alive than have the LN2 anyway :)

Vet bills been about 4K now over the past two months since we discovered he has heart problems .. kinda killed a few plans lol

Got this nice new pristine 975 sitting on top of my Classified Ltd. Ed. and can't get it colder than -45C under load :( Makes me want to cry :( Thank god I found this :boobies: to make me feel better :) hahahahahaha

Kal-EL

07-14-2009, 09:16 AM

Awe that sucks man. These vet's now-a-days are crazy expensive. I paid $1500 bucks last year when my Big Boy Great Dane decided to have an instance of "BLoat". His stomach was blowing up like a beach ball and he was balling tears, poor guy.

Hopefully someday we'll have pet med insurance coverage plans that arnt so expensive.

MaadDaawg

07-14-2009, 10:07 PM

MaadDaawg

07-14-2009, 10:08 PM

So Supes, when can I start putting for sale stuff up, I got a whole closet full of spare parts.. and some primo ones at that What are the guidelines on selling on the forum?

MaadDaawg

07-14-2009, 10:10 PM

By the way, I hope my dominator Gts get back before the next contest :( the 1866 just ain't quite as fast :(

MaadDaawg

07-14-2009, 10:12 PM

Chuchnit

07-15-2009, 03:00 AM

Here is your requirements for using our for sale section.

http://www.overclockaholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191

Kal-EL

07-15-2009, 03:11 AM

So Supes, when can I start putting for sale stuff up, I got a whole closet full of spare parts.. and some primo ones at that What are the guidelines on selling on the forum?

Buddy, the Marketplace eludes most people but if they're determined to find it, they will. For you I'll point my finger to the 4th item in the left sidebar :taunt:

Kal-EL

07-15-2009, 03:16 AM

Ah man, I had a Harlequin Great Dane for a long time... he lived almost 11 years... creid my ass off when he died :( Credit him with saving my sanity throgh the first mariage. Had him trained will, he slept in the middle and if she got frisky he pushed her out of bed lol.... true story

Now I have two Dobies, which are awesome dogs too. The male just delveled cardiomyopia which is the scourge of the breed. with the meds he acts like a puppy, w/o them he'd be dead in a few weeks :cry:

Oh well... priorities and all that shit.

Wow, 11 years is a very long time in Dane years. I aint gonna cry tho when he goes, nope, just gonna pour out some alpo for my dead doggies cool2

Least he'll be free of my neighbors 5lbs Siamese Devil Cat that chases his 150lbs ass around the yard and terrorizes him. j/k :rofl

Deux

07-15-2009, 06:02 AM

I'm in Chicago .. don't know of any other hardcore overclockers here :( I'm kind of a celebrity with certain Microcenter salesmen who don't have a clue. Each time I walk in with an NBOC t shirt on I get hit on for all the latest lol I shold charge them :D

What part of Chicago are you in? I'm out in the western suburbs, wheaton to be specific. There are a few other guys around but we've yet to get any meetups going :)

MaadDaawg

07-15-2009, 06:16 AM

I'm in the city off Irving Park Road just east of the Kennedy. Just a few miles from MicroCenterl

Wow, 11 years is a very long time in Dane years. I aint gonna cry tho when he goes, nope, just gonna pour out some alpo for my dead doggies cool2

Least he'll be free of my neighbors 5lbs Siamese Devil Cat that chases his 150lbs ass around the yard and terrorizes him. j/k :rofl

Man, I still got his last bowl of kibble in a box out in the garage.. all his doggie toys too :( Just a softy at heart lol

buddy, the marketplace eludes most people but if they're determined to find it, they will. For you i'll point my finger to the 4th item in the left sidebar :taunt:

doh!

10 chars

DrNip

07-15-2009, 06:52 AM

Man LN2 is more expensive than I thought. Looks like I will be rockin the DICE machine a lil while longer.

rickss69

07-22-2009, 01:51 AM

$1 a litre here. Bought this dewar off ebay for $250. :)

Buckeye

07-22-2009, 05:04 AM

Nice Dewar !

Finally got Airgas out here to get a 160L to my home, price was $225 for everything.

One of the top sales guy there, his wife, was my realestate agent, thats how I got going at the Airgas here in the ifrst place. I finaly talked with him about the 160L and got everything all setup.

The problem out here is no one has the little tucks to deliver with anymore, only the big tucks and they won't come to peoples homes most of the time.

rickss69

07-22-2009, 05:12 AM

AirGas is right across the street from my shop, so no headaches there. Hate to think what a 160L would weigh...:eek:

Buckeye

07-22-2009, 05:21 AM

When my 50L is full it's ~150lbs :rofl

2chesapeakes

07-22-2009, 01:56 PM

My 60l dewar weighs 205Lbs full.

Kal-EL

07-22-2009, 02:19 PM

My 60l dewar weighs 205Lbs full.

wow, had no idea it was that heavy, crazy.

sofos1990

07-22-2009, 11:22 PM

yeah full dewars are too heavy indeed:)
Here in Greece we are buying LN2 from AirLiquide ~1.5E per litre.:thumbsup:

2chesapeakes

07-23-2009, 12:14 AM

wow, had no idea it was that heavy, crazy.
Yeah it was l alot of fun getting it out of the back of the truck full. The full deward weighs about 60lbs more than I do. I ended up purchasing a lift that goes into the received to get it out of the truck.