Poll: Hwbot Rev. 4 Yeh or Neh (all oca users)

[Kal-EL]

Simple, yes or no.
I know the outcome but humor me.

[Dentlord]

It completely destroys team competition.

[Neuromancer]

No and I wont participate if it is implemented in its current standing.

I will be the first 0 point member of OCA if it is implemented :(

[FACE]

No way, Jose... I'm all about the community and comrodery. Inter team competition is good, but not when we are all scrambling for the same points.

It's bullshit, plain and simple. If need be, we can make up our own points system and compare each others' scores right here @ home ;)

They'll either give in to the community, or end up sucking a big fat floppy one with a nearly dead website. I know my scores are coming off there if said rev. is implemented as is.

We of common interest will come together through other means. 3 years ago, I didn't even know hwbot existed, and I oc'd my system anyway. :D

[ReverendMaynard]

not a chance am I going to back that crap.

[DrNip]

Like I said. It is what it is until something else comes along. I will still compete.

[thebanik]

^^Thats what I chose, but yes, if there is even a half baked repository that comes along which promotes team like rev3 and earlier then I will quit from hwbot the first day......

[Witchdoctor]

Didn't vote :ohcrap:

All I can say if it is fun I will participate
if it is not fun I won't

Don't know enough about the changes to give an educated opinion either way ....

Just hope they don't ruin a good thing .... :)

[Patch]

It blows.

I like nothing about it.

But until something else comes along, I'll still play.

[Mr.Scott]

Did not vote but,
Rev. 4 blows
As for what myself and my team will do........
We'll have to assess whether it's worth it or not to play.....or maybe a strategy change....i dunno. I need to see how it shakes out first.
BTW, if I haven't told you lately, thanks for considering me almost like a real member here. :D

[Splave]

you are a real member scott :) you just cant see the internal team stuff is all

[FACE]

you are a real member scott :) you just cant see the internal team stuff is all

True that! always welcome, Mr. Scott... :thumbsup:

[Hondacity]

somebody already suggested this but...

let the team captains vote on this...... how many teams are against this idea?

anyways my perspective: how the hell do you open the ppt?

[FACE]

somebody already suggested this but...

let the team captains vote on this...... how many teams are against this idea?

anyways my perspective: how the hell do you open the ppt?

it's a powerpoint presentation

We already know the team captains' responses... Why would any team captain like watching their team's score drop 60%? If it were up to the team captains, we and the teams would get MOAR boints! :D

[Mr.Scott]

Perfect. This is what I got for asking why the HW sharers that they supposedly had proof of haven't been banned yet. I asked who they were protecting.....the heavy hitters that they intend to use to suck in the manufacturers?

[GFDuke]

Well i guess you hit a nerve there Scotty. Warp drive plz. Thse bastages are pissed now!! Get us out of here.

[Mr.Scott]

Sometimes the truth hurts.

[thebanik]

Man, there is no denying the fact that they want money, as Massman himself said in one of the posts, its not only about sustaining but they want to cover the hole they have burned in their pockets in the last 3 years....

[Hondacity]

sheeet i hate getting banned.... we're here here for you man scott

[Witchdoctor]

Did not vote but,
Rev. 4 blows
As for what myself and my team will do........
We'll have to assess whether it's worth it or not to play.....or maybe a strategy change....i dunno. I need to see how it shakes out first.
BTW, if I haven't told you lately, thanks for considering me almost like a real member here. :D


Hey Scott you are a real Overclockaholic bro ......... :thumbsup:

You are just not on the Alliance is all.....

I don't own the place but I would venture to guess that door is always open for a member of your knowledge and character ..... You rock Scott ! ! !

What ever happens, happens and only one thing is certail while this is a cool vote and all what is said here will have zero impact on the Bots decision making process


:rockon:

Sick avy Splig ....... :rofl

[Bones]

Yes, Mr. Scott indeed dug for the truth and got stung but that only confirms my thoughts about it.
My post states it and the reply that was given only serves to further confirm things. The catch right now is HWbot is the only game in town - The solution would be for another "Bot" to appear, free of corporate involvement. I do know a site like that would be a full time job to manage but it could be done.

I made my post as tactful as possible, yet got my point across and the reply was half-hearted. It's clear he's no longer in full control of the site's direction and now is being told what the site will do or else.
He didn't really try to take me at issue with it, more like do his part and cover the tracks since he knows that's the real deal going down. Corporations doing a sponsorship will expect a return for their investment/sponsorship and if you don't produce or do as instructed, you get cutoff, plain and simple. Doesn't matter if some are being favored or not, that's what they want and serves to further the agenda for the site as planned. It's no suprise the names of a few sponsors appeared when rev 3 was implemented and now this.

You do the math and see how things add up.

Between our sites, we can be and are a real threat to the big names out there. Nothing like having a "nobody" showup and stomp a mudhole in your latest offering with an older piece of hardware on lesser cooling/methods/whatever and that's happened already between our site's members actually doing it. :D
I mean look at what you guys have done lately.
Great stuff. :good:

Get rid of these threats and it's business as usual = $$.

As for my involvement, I'll wait and see what goes.

[Hpnotiq]

Are you fucking kidding me? "Yeah, lets make teams almost completely pointless so that we can Bring teams together in bench sessions, barring of course that most teams have members spread across the world"

Who is the genius behind this... Travis was telling me about another Hardware ranking site that was on the rise with some 2-3 thousand users currently, I might have to start supporting them and boycotting HWBot, where you can only support it buy lightening your wallet...

I havn't logged into HWBot in a few days and just found out about this, and now I am hopping around the store in a furious nerd rage induced shit storm of HWBot hatred... I'm waiting for Travis to come back from a service call so I can jump his shit and vent some anger as to why he let Massman do this! We have a nearly full 230 liter tank of LN2 and now I am completely unmotivated to bench anything..

[DrNip]

Who is the genius behind this... Travis was telling me about another Hardware ranking site that was on the rise with some 2-3 thousand users currently, I might have to start supporting them and boycotting HWBot, where you can only support it buy lightening your wallet...



Oh really. What's the name of this site?

[Mr.Scott]

Yes, please do tell.:)

[2chesapeakes]

ripping.org had a database or world records but I do not beleive they are around anymore.

[Hondacity]

this is really tickling me to reconsider things...

[Mr.Scott]

ripping.org had a database or world records but I do not beleive they are around anymore.
All gone. It was run by a couple guys that now work for HWBot. That sites been gone for almost a year.

[Neuromancer]

we need a new ocdb

[MaadDaawg]

A little disappointing, and confusing, why someone would not partake of their god given right to vote! That's how we ended up with 0bamaMamma you know :confused3:

Stand up, grab you balls in your left hand, and use the right hand to vote for what you believe it dammit

:greenwtf:

non-voteres
:kneelsuckers:

[DOM]

so whats going to change ? :Dizzy:

[GeorgeStorm]

Not a member of the team, but thought i'd have my say
While I think there are some good bits, and it has good intentions
It utterly destroys all sense of being part of the team, tesco would be having a fit...(not sure if you get them over in the US?)
So while I will still use hwbot, as its the only thing around, I would like radical changes made before i'd be happy to support rev.4

[DrNip]

Looks like the thread is finally dead over there as no one had posted in it since 4:05 yesterday. At least I hope it is dead. :deadhorse:

[MaadDaawg]

lets hope version 4 is deader than the thread

[Kal-EL]

Not a member of the team, but thought i'd have my say
While I think there are some good bits, and it has good intentions
It utterly destroys all sense of being part of the team, tesco would be having a fit...(not sure if you get them over in the US?)
So while I will still use hwbot, as its the only thing around, I would like radical changes made before i'd be happy to support rev.4

Its a bit too convoluted in Rev.4 and the de-emphasis on Teams or the splitting of teams into sub-teams overclomplicates and deminishes the whole team concept.

Being able to be a part of something bigger than yourself and contribute to that singular goal motivates people to participate. We're social animals not rogue mauraders. Our OCA team counts on every single team member from bottom to top and value the top of the ladder as much the bottom of the ladder.

Personally, I dont have a problem with having to take a video of my benchmark run or being required to post and keep pics of batch #'s from hardware on file with Hwbot. Its a little extra work but takes less time than installing a multi-boot or running wprime 10x's to get the best time or running superPI 32m a hundred times or once on a Pentium 4.

If they implemented stringent rules, the dedicated and honorable overclockers would remain while the hardware sharing bloaks would take off and we'd be left with a clean league.

I don't think they'd lose as much participation as what they are looking at now with Rev. 4.

I've already heard of 3 different groups that have begun work on a their own overclocking database site and now they have toptenhardware up and beta testing with the Asus1156 contest.

[DrNip]

Only a matter of time until something gets off the ground and going. It will be a little rough around the edges at 1st as is everything though. I welcome alternatives.

[GeorgeStorm]

I agree, and while I wouldn't like taking a video of my run, as that would require buying something to video with :p
I'm happy to take pics and whatever, and as you said, just by having stricter rules about submissions it would probably sort the guys who really want to do it from those who aren't that bothered.

[Bones]

Only a matter of time until something gets off the ground and going. It will be a little rough around the edges at 1st as is everything though. I welcome alternatives.

I must agree with this.
An alternative would be great and (Maybe) get them to thinking about what they are planning. Since it's been stated this new revison isn't slated to go into effect until 2011, it's still too early to really know what could be at this point so I'm just laying back and watching for now.

[DrNip]

Sitting back and waiting is all we can do. No need getting all upset or twisted out of shape about the unknown. Might happen and it might not. Another site or two might pop up and they might not. Until then we must keep on benchin.

[FACE]

*throws chair*

[Neuromancer]

*throws chair*

I hear yah. I voted twice I think. Poll is broken or my PC was at the time...

EDIT: Missed some posts.

Kal. Epic super hero support. I find it amusing that such a big lug can be so eloquent :) More importantly spot on the money.

[Hpnotiq]

The website that Travis mentioned to me is
http://top10hardware.com
which currently has 4608 registered users and is running a 1156 socket contest. I'm not sure how good the site is yet, I havn't dumped any time into researching it as I've just registered but it might look hopeful to see it as an alternative to HWBot... who knows.

[PizzaMan]

Checking out the top10hardware.com. Looks interesting.

Also, I think you guys are going to be seeing a couple more databases popping up close to the end of the year. ;)

[Kal-EL]

Checking out the top10hardware.com. Looks interesting.

Also, I think you guys are going to be seeing a couple more databases popping up close to the end of the year. ;)
Its always nice to have options :)

[Hondacity]

but i'm banned in oc.net lol

[PizzaMan]

:evil:

[Hondacity]

ohhhhh im slow ....id like to know their plans...hehehe..but yeah i'll wait in the sidelines...

[Neuromancer]

Yeah top10 is still REALLY rough. Website does not work properly in IE or Opera. (totally does not work in Opera... you can view it but not even login)

[Bones]

Checking out the top10hardware.com. Looks interesting.

Also, I think you guys are going to be seeing a couple more databases popping up close to the end of the year. ;)

Would be good to see a few come about. Maybe one will replace the now defunct ripping.org site.

[Chuchnit]

Looking at the latest poll at hwbot, I positively WILL NOT participate if they make any of the said changes. Every one of them suck. Until they come up with something that doesn't devalue ANY member of our team, I'm not playing. The lowest point person is just as important as our #1 guy in my opinion!! I will keep my scores up because I am with this team 100%, but I'm not gonna participate in shit that says some of our people are not important. That means no more subs if and when the new rev4 goes live.

Honestly I don't have the time I used to so I hardly ever go to hwbot and check out scores, but I'm starting to wonder about the validity of the hw sharing arguement. Our team does not in any way share hardware; not even for non-hwbot purposes including just for fun. We are a relatively small team and are ranked high the "right way". Yet because of our size we have atleast one individual going around and preaching that we share hw. Can someone show me a lot, and I mean a lot of possible hw sharing incidents? Considering the volume of members and submissions at hwbot, a small number of examples isn't going to convince me. I think much of this is due to jealousy from people getting beat. There have for sure been some high profile examples of hw/score sharing lately and its pisses me off like everyone else, but I think they are overstepping their bounds and over regulating this.

You want to tell me about hw sharing? Go look at Rom's thread (http://www.overclockaholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3511). Between two members they, out of their own pocket, have went through over $10k in CPU's and I know they've bought more than just 980x's. Betcha the number increases big time if you count 1156 CPU's and s775 they have bought for hw boints. Let's not even start to talk about the amount of 5870's and gtx480's our members have bought. Yet since many of our teammates have the means (money) to buy these products of the same model, we are called cheaters by some. Sad really. There is a reason our team is small. Well, quite a few actually. First, we are all very very competitive and almost all of us have aspirations of gunning for the top spots overall. That means most of our guys is basically buying the same latest, greatest hardware out which of course is the same stuff so to speak. There is no other way to go about it. Second, I think our members are just different from most other benchers (in an awesome way of course) and that's why we band together in a small community like here at OCA. Our team isn't locked at a certain number of participants like some are, it's just that not everyone fits into what we got going on here.

Anyways enough rambling, I gotta get some work done. Here is the thread with the poll full of crappy options at hwbot. http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11494

[Kal-EL]

Burp! :scared:

yah man, poll sucks.

We have until December to reach our goal of Top 5 Teams in the ranking. Come January, our goal will be forum with the most amount of benchmark threads :D and contests with prizes :D

[Chuchnit]

Burp! :scared:

yah man, poll sucks.

We have until December to reach our goal of Top 5 Teams in the ranking. Come January, our goal will be forum with the most amount of benchmark threads :D and contests with prizes :D

Well with my life right now I don't know how much I can participate, but if I see just a little crack of light to get some hardware, I will buy it and bench the piss out of it for the team. If not, 2011 is possibly looking like it will be my year. :D

[dread77]

Trying to put some sense to those Bot guys is a major waste of time. They never listen... It's their way or the highway... If you have a different oppinion than theirs, you are either gonna get ignored or mocked like a 5 year old child...
If they are "told" to go on with Rev.4, they will no matter what... So don't bother.
I think the team is pretty strong and will come up with all needed points.

Regarding those rumors Chuchnit mentioned... I was not in the team just a few hours ago, so I can tell you for sure that I never heard a bad comment regarding OCA.
it's just that, after the last revision, all top teams are pretty close in rankings, so nobody wants to lose his position by an underdog.
OCA is just 3,000 points away from AF, can you imagine what will happen if we go over them???

[Kal-EL]

If any version of Rev. 4 is implemented, you can count on Team Pure staying in the #1 spot indefinitely. They have the most benchers in the top 5 and these revisions take the best score from each hardware category/benchmark from the team. Effectually, it solidifies the heavily seeded and manuf supported overclockers into the top of the rankings.

The paradigm will shift forcefully and Team Rankings will mirror the Overclocker's League completely. If you're not in the "in" crowd, your out.

Previously, there was balance where even if a bunch of top notch overclockers like Team PURE rallied together to form a smoking hot team, another team could make a go of it with numerous mid to low range overclockers, or a team such as ours with an entire range of dedicated overclockers.

[Hondacity]

ok..so we vote...on the pole....or poll..lol...

what do i choose? or what do we as oca choose?

[DrNip]

WFT does option #6

... oh, and also, I don't like changes

mean? I can't help but feel this is massman's way of being slick or having some hidden meaning in it. Could have just said I don't agree or something of that nature. I would vote #6 but can't because of this.

[Kal-EL]

ok..so we vote...on the pole....or poll..lol...

what do i choose? or what do we as oca choose?
Trying to put some sense to those Bot guys is a major waste of time. They never listen... It's their way or the highway... If you have a different oppinion than theirs, you are either gonna get ignored or mocked like a 5 year old child...
If they are "told" to go on with Rev.4, they will no matter what... So don't bother.
I think the team is pretty strong and will come up with all needed points.



Right now the only vote I'm comfortable with casting is "oh, and also, I don't like changes". Since this poll doesnt show a hint of Hwbot relenting their proposed changes, its pretty much a dead poll. If they were open to not killing the Team Rankings, there would be a clear option to vote for "NO CHANGES".


Team PURE has some of the best overclockers and some of the best manuf supported overclockers in the business. Lets put them aside for a second because these proposals are not about "Team" anymore.

Lets instead take someone like Hicookie or Hipro or even Andre for that matter. Any one of these three at any given time can take every world record in every hardware category. What use do they have for the 400, 200, 100, 49 other members on their team? NONE! Hwbot feels this is good "Team Spirit" :Dizzy:

Now lets take an average Joe and then a team of 400 average joes, not mid-rangers or upper enders, just your average joe overclocker. Put him and just for exaggeration sake 1000 average joe overclockers on the same team and have them compete against one Hicookie. Do the odds get better? Nope. Nothing against great overclockers with great manufacturer backing, but this scenario is a fruitless endeaver for 1001 overclockers.

Whats that you say? You say "But I'm confident in my growing skills and potential as an emerging GREAT overclocker". Well, I got news for you buddy, bring back another Fermi Fiasco where only 3 approved NDA overclockers recieve vital Cold Slow, Cold Boot Bug information and you can kiss your hopes, dreams and aspirations bye bye.

Its a rough go of it. Just like our buddy dread has pointed out, and as most of us have observed, hwbot has a deaf ear towards the members who don't blindly agree to their plans. WE've had a tremendous showing against this Revision by the community, the largest I've seen to date. What does hwbot do about it? Post up a poll asking you which Revision or Revision 4 will you accept? Heck, just about every revision up there is still Rev 4 or a baby step towards Rev 4.

Somebody please point out a flaw in my thinking in regards to what I percieve Rev 4 to be. I may be looking at it all wrong.

[karmakazi]

If they do the best submission only, I guarantee you PURE will split into 2-3 man teams and create PURE#1-#10 and no one else will even enter top10. I think it would be both fitting and hilarious if that happened (not to mention probably the end of hwbot as any serious competition platform).

[Splave]

I dont think hwbot should ever change again, every revision makes it weaker and weaker. Whens the last bowling changed its rules :D

They claim its to cut teams costs and sharing but the teams this would benefit the most are getting the manufacturer support.

[karmakazi]

I agree the current setup is as close to perfect as it could be... I even like it as much as rev2

[FACE]

Stuff Kal said.

Preach it, brotha!

[Chuchnit]

Trying to put some sense to those Bot guys is a major waste of time. They never listen... It's their way or the highway... If you have a different oppinion than theirs, you are either gonna get ignored or mocked like a 5 year old child...
If they are "told" to go on with Rev.4, they will no matter what... So don't bother.
I think the team is pretty strong and will come up with all needed points.

Regarding those rumors Chuchnit mentioned... I was not in the team just a few hours ago, so I can tell you for sure that I never heard a bad comment regarding OCA.
it's just that, after the last revision, all top teams are pretty close in rankings, so nobody wants to lose his position by an underdog.
OCA is just 3,000 points away from AF, can you imagine what will happen if we go over them???

Couldn't agree with you more regarding hwbot staff attitude mate. Regarding OCA reputation, there is a reason not many people have a bad word to say about us. First, we don't cheat EVER. Second, we as a group generally get along with everyone and try to be as respectful as possible. There is actually only one or two people that try to run our name in the mud. The problem is that one of them has a lot of pull in the scene. We will overcome that garbage with our class and sportmanship. We just do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may. :thumbsup:

If any version of Rev. 4 is implemented, you can count on Team Pure staying in the #1 spot indefinitely. They have the most benchers in the top 5 and these revisions take the best score from each hardware category/benchmark from the team. Effectually, it solidifies the heavily seeded and manuf supported overclockers into the top of the rankings.

The paradigm will shift forcefully and Team Rankings will mirror the Overclocker's League completely. If you're not in the "in" crowd, your out.

Previously, there was balance where even if a bunch of top notch overclockers like Team PURE rallied together to form a smoking hot team, another team could make a go of it with numerous mid to low range overclockers, or a team such as ours with an entire range of dedicated overclockers.

Totally agree and we could probably still rank pretty high, but I just don't like what it does to the whole team concept.

ok..so we vote...on the pole....or poll..lol...

what do i choose? or what do we as oca choose?

Pick which ever one you are happy with man. I chose the last one.

I dont think hwbot should ever change again, every revision makes it weaker and weaker. Whens the last bowling changed its rules :D

They claim its to cut teams costs and sharing but the teams this would benefit the most are getting the manufacturer support.

I agree the current setup is as close to perfect as it could be... I even like it as much as rev2

Agreed. I wish hwbot was like rev2. The only thing I would change is make it competitive in 3d from 1-4 card categories. Rev3 really made single card benching interesting. Just have the same point algorythm for 3d from single card all the way through 4-way.

[DrNip]

I choose nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chuchnit]

Found the source of the hate :)

http://hwbot.org/blog/wp-content//small1.jpg


Actually I'm kidding, but look at the pwnage in alternative 3 and current ranking. :eek: Just thought it was humerous that we stand out that much.

[Patch]

Funny. But that's just one 2D test with one CPU.

As a team, I think we'd do well with any of the revisions.

Problems in my mind are two-fold.

1) Tells the vast majority of overclockers that they aren't important for the team.
2) Makes the #1 team spot go to whatever INDIVIDUAL finds (or is given) the standout CPU of the time. Nothing team about that.

With a 7 GHz 980x we have a lot of guys who could dethrone the Taiwanese duo. One CPU gives you 1M, 32M, pifast, 3D06, 3D05, AM3 high bointage global world records - even with an average performing GPU. Add the global WR boints from doing those benches multicard style. Combine that chip with a good performing GPU (not necessarily best) and you have Vantage and 3D03 in the bag,too.

Everyone else then scrabbles for the remaining high bointage WR's in wprime and PCmark05 (currently quads) and the lone E8600 dominated 3D01.

That guy already will have the individual glory. Stupid to give his team all the glory without any additional effort by anybody else.

[Splave]

patch genius post mate :)

[Witchdoctor]

+1 Patch

Great points bro ........... :thumbsup:

Hope they see the light

[Kal-EL]

Well, lets at least try and preserve the current version and voice our discontent with any changes.


If it pleases you, vote #2 and #6. Thats 2 and 6.


Good luck :thumbsup:

[DrNip]

I vote against #2. True it has the original version with it but it has the proposed on the ass end of it. To me that is just a banana in the tail pipe. Even though I voted for #6 it is pointless. I say this because of what massman said to me:

I also said before that things NEED to change. I've said it from the beginning, a couple of times in the other rev4 thread and said it several times in this thread as well.

Things NEED to change. Period.

That right there says it will change and even if we vote against it, too bad. :finger:

[GeorgeStorm]

Why does he think things need to change?

[DrNip]

I dunno. I'm tired of trying to make sense and or logic out of this. I can't help but feel massman is playing games. I use to have respect for the dude but now I can't say I do.

[PizzaMan]

Burp! :scared:

yah man, poll sucks.

We have until December to reach our goal of Top 5 Teams in the ranking. Come January, our goal will be forum with the most amount of benchmark threads :D and contests with prizes :D

I know of a forum that has contests every month with ~$300 is prizes each month. Feel free to stop by and join in. :)

HWbot needs to keep things simple and they should be more worried about ways to bring new overclockers into the competitive benching and not proposing ideas that will turn them away.